1 2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF JASPER COUNTY, 3 MISSOURI 4 CASE NO 01-CV-683025 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 6 RAFAELA AND CARLOS BENAVIDES, et al., 7 Plaintiffs, 8 -against- 9 INTERNATIONAL FLAVORS & FRAGRANCES, INC., a New York Corporation, and BUSH BOAKE 10 ALLEN, INC., a Virginia Corporation, 11 Defendants. 12 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 13 Four Times Square New York, New York 14 January 14, 2003 15 9:11 a.m. 16 17 DEPOSITION of INTERNATIONAL FLAVORS & 18 FRAGRANCES INC., by DAVID L. CARROLL, 19 PhD., one of the Defendants herein, taken 20 by the Plaintiff, pursuant to Agreement, 21 held at the above-noted time and place 22 before a Notary Public of the State of New 23 York. 24 25 2 1 2 APPEARANCES: 3 HUMPHREY, FARRINGTON & McCLAIN, P.C. 4 Attorneys for Plaintiffs 221 West Lexington, Suite 400 5 Independence, MO 64050 6 BY: KENNETH B. McCLAIN, ESQ. JAMES M. ZIEGLER, ESQ. 7 8 TURNER, REID, DUNCAN, 9 LOOMER & PATTON, P.C. Attorneys for Defendant 10 International Flavors & Fragrances, Inc. 11 1355 East Bradford Parkway Suite A 12 Springfield, MO 65804 13 BY: MICHAEL J. PATTON, ESQ. 14 15 DINSMORE & SHOHL, LLP Attorneys for Defendant 16 Bush Boake Allen, Inc. 1900 Chemed Center 17 255 East Fifth Street Cincinnati, Ohio 45202 18 BY: FRANK C. WOODSIDE, III, ESQ. 19 20 ALSO PRESENT: SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE, 21 MEAGHER & FLOM LLP Four Times Square 22 New York, New York 10036 23 BY: BERT L. WOLFF, ESQ. 24 ROBERT CALVERT, Videographer 25 3 1 2 MR. CALVERT: We are now on the 3 record. This is the video operator 4 speaking, Robert Calvert, of Alliance 5 Reporting, offices located at 102 6 Third Street, Mineola, New York. 7 Today's date is January 14, 8 2003. The time on the video monitor 9 is 9:11 a.m. We are here at the 10 offices of Skadden, Arps, Slate, 11 Meagher & Flom located at Four Times 12 Square, New York, New York to take the 13 videotaped deposition of David L. 14 Carroll, Ph.D. in the matter of 15 Rafaela and Carlos Benavides, et al. 16 versus International Flavors & 17 Fragrances, Incorporated, a New York 18 Corporation and Bush Boake Allen, 19 Incorporated, a Virginia Corporation. 20 Venue of this case is Circuit Court of 21 Jasper County, Missouri. The index 22 number is 01-CV-683025. 23 Will counsels please voice 24 identify yourselves and state who you 25 represent? 4 1 2 MR. McCLAIN: On behalf of the 3 plaintiffs, Ken McClain and Jim 4 Ziegler. 5 MR. PATTON: Mike Patton for 6 IFF. 7 MR. WOODSIDE: Frank C. 8 Woodside, III, Dinsmore & Shohl, 9 Cincinatti, Ohio for Bush Boake Allen, 10 otherwise, frequently referred to as 11 BBA. 12 MR. CALVERT: Will the court 13 reporter please swear in the witness. 14 D A V I D L. C A R R O L L, 15 the Witness herein, having first been 16 duly sworn by ELLEN KATZ, a CRR, RPR 17 and a Notary Public in and for the 18 State of New York, was examined and 19 testified as follows: 20 MR. CALVERT: Please, begin. 21 EXAMINATION BY 22 MR. McCLAIN: 23 Q. Mr. Carroll, will you state your 24 full name? 25 A. David Carroll. 5 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Where do you live? 3 A. Atlantic Islands, New Jersey. 4 Q. Who are you currently employed 5 by? 6 A. International Flavors & 7 Fragrances. 8 Q. I think you're going to have to 9 keep your voice up a little bit. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. Have you ever been deposed 12 before? 13 A. No, I've not. 14 Q. All right. Well, this is not 15 going to be a confrontational process. 16 You don't need to be concerned about that 17 or any arguments between you and I. 18 I'm just here to ask you some 19 questions regarding the diacetyl and the 20 butter flavor that is manufactured by IFF. 21 Do you understand that? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. If you don't understand a 24 question I ask, you can stop it and ask me 25 to repeat it or if there's something that 6 1 D.L. Carroll 2 is not clear to you in my question, you 3 have the right to just stop this and ask 4 me any questions you would like. 5 Do you understand that? 6 A. Yes, I do. Yes. 7 Q. What's your job title? 8 A. I am the director of Fragrance 9 Safety Assurance for North America, Latin 10 America and Far East. 11 Q. How long have you had that job? 12 A. About 18 months. 13 Q. What was your job before that? 14 A. I was the director of Corporate 15 Regulatory Affairs for Bush Boake Allen, 16 Incorporated. 17 Q. As the director of Corporate 18 Regulatory Affairs, what were your 19 responsibilities? 20 A. I was responsible for the -- for 21 several things. I was responsible for the 22 review of flavor and fragrance 23 formulations that were submitted to 24 customers. I was responsible for tracking 25 various federal and national, 7 1 D.L. Carroll 2 international activities associated with 3 the flavor and fragrance industry or that 4 might impact the flavor and fragrance 5 industry. 6 MR. McCLAIN: I'm sorry. Can I 7 have the last question back that I 8 asked. 9 [The requested portion of the 10 record was read.] 11 MR. McCLAIN: That's the 12 question I want you to answer. I 13 apologize. 14 A. I had several responsibilities. 15 I was responsible for -- for the review of 16 flavor and fragrance formulations that 17 were submitted to customers. I was 18 responsible for tracking various national 19 and international activities that would 20 affect the company's ability to sell, 21 manufacture flavors and, let's see, I was 22 also responsible for corporate quality 23 assurance. 24 Q. Now, how long were you in that 25 position? 8 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. Director of Corporate Regulatory 3 Affairs, about four years. 4 Q. So does that take us back 5 somewhere in the 1997 time frame; is that 6 when you began those responsibilities? 7 A. It would be about then, yes. 8 Q. Were you employed by BBA before 9 that time? 10 A. Yes, I was. 11 Q. What job did you have? 12 A. I was the director of 13 Environmental and Regulatory Affairs for 14 Bush Boake Allen America's, which was the 15 U.S. subsidiary of Bush Boake Allen. 16 Q. Were your responsibilities 17 similar to the responsibilities you had as 18 director of Corporate Regulatory Affairs? 19 A. Yes, they were similar. 20 Q. But for a smaller unit? 21 A. Yes, that's correct. 22 Q. How long were you in that 23 position? 24 A. I started that position in 1989. 25 Q. Before that time, what did you 9 1 D.L. Carroll 2 do? 3 A. Before that time, I was employed 4 by the Colgate Palmolive Company. 5 Q. In what capacity? 6 A. I was the manager of Flavor and 7 Fragrance Development for Colgate 8 Palmolive. 9 Q. For how long? 10 A. I was employed with the company 11 in 1975. I held that position for, 12 perhaps, three years -- no, I'm sorry -- 13 perhaps, six years. 14 Q. So from -- that takes us from 15 '75 to '81 approximately. 16 From '81 to '89, what did you do 17 at Colgate? 18 A. I had a number of other 19 positions within Colgate. I was in the 20 basic R & D group. I was -- I was in 21 charge of Product Development for certain 22 products. 23 What else? Section head of 24 Fragrance Research, several positions. 25 Q. Before '75, were you in school? 10 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. Yes, I was in school. 3 Q. What is your academic training? 4 A. I have a Bachelor's in Chemistry 5 and Ph.D., Chemistry. 6 Q. What college or university? 7 A. Georgia Tech. 8 Q. Georgia Tech? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. Was there any specialty in your 11 Chemistry Ph.D.? 12 A. It was enzymology, organic 13 chemistry, enzymology. 14 Q. Can you tell me how it is or can 15 you describe in general the business of 16 BBA while you worked there? 17 A. While I worked there, Bush Boake 18 Allen was the manufacturer of flavor, 19 fragrances, aromic chemicals, spices, 20 seasonings that were sold to a variety of 21 industrial customers. 22 Q. Did BBA, while you worked there, 23 have a number of plants throughout the 24 United States? 25 A. Yes, they did. 11 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Where were those plants located? 3 A. There was a plant in Norwood, 4 New Jersey; one in Chicago, Illinois; one 5 in Carlton, Texas; and one in 6 Jacksonville, Florida. 7 Q. Now -- 8 A. (Continuing) Oh, one in Black 9 Creek, Wisconsin. 10 Q. Did each of these have different 11 functions? 12 A. Yes, they did, uh-huh. 13 Q. Which of these plants 14 manufactured butter flavor? 15 A. The Chicago Plant manufactured 16 butter flavor and the Black Creek, 17 Wisconsin Plant manufactured butter 18 flavors. 19 Q. Can you tell me what you know 20 about butter flavors in terms of the 21 manufacturing -- 22 MR. McCLAIN: That's a bad 23 question. Let me start again. 24 Q. Mr. Carroll, BBA did manufacture 25 butter flavors, did it not? 12 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. Yes, it did. 3 Q. Did it manufacture different 4 types of butter flavors? 5 A. I don't know what you mean by 6 "types." 7 Q. Let me ask it this way. When a 8 customer comes to -- came to BBA and 9 requested a flavoring, would it be your 10 job or someone working with your job to 11 try to determine what type of flavoring 12 they needed and either supply something 13 that was premanufactured or manufactured 14 something to their need? 15 A. No. That was -- that was not my 16 responsibility at all. 17 Q. Is that something the company 18 did? 19 A. Yes, I believe the company did 20 that. 21 Q. So is that an accurate 22 description of the general process by 23 which a customer would come to BBA to try 24 to purchase flavoring products? 25 A. Yes, I suppose so. I... 13 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Do you know anything about the 3 Jasper Popped Corn operation, as we are 4 talking about it here? 5 A. The only information I'm aware 6 of about the Jasper facility is the 7 information that's contained in a NIOSH 8 Report and in a presentation that people 9 from NIOSH made to the Flavor and Extract 10 Manufacturers Association. 11 Q. Let's take that one at a time. 12 NIOSH issued a report regarding the 13 Gilster Mary Lee Popped Corn Plant in 14 Jasper, Missouri. 15 Is that what you're referring 16 to? 17 A. Yes, that's what I'm referring 18 to. 19 Q. You read the report? 20 A. I read the report, yes. 21 Q. How did you obtain a copy of the 22 report? 23 A. A copy of the report was faxed 24 to Ken Schrankel at International Flavors 25 & Fragrances. 14 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Who is Ken Schrankel? 3 A. He is vice president of 4 Corporate Safety Assurance for IFF. 5 Q. Who faxed it to him? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Would that have been within the 8 last year or so? 9 A. I don't recall when -- when that 10 was. 11 Q. Did Mr. Schankel -- did I 12 pronounce that correctly? 13 A. Schrankel. 14 Q. Did Mr. Schrankel ask you to 15 read it? 16 A. No, I don't think he asked me to 17 read it. He gave it to me. 18 Q. When he handed it to you, what 19 did he say? 20 A. Well, it was faxed to him as a 21 result of a telephone conversation that he 22 and I had with people from NIOSH. 23 Q. Okay. When did you first learn 24 that NIOSH was doing a study at the Jasper 25 Popped Corn Plant? 15 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. I don't recall what the exact 3 date was. I received a letter from 4 someone at NIOSH asking for information 5 about a particular flavor; and in a 6 subsequent phone conversation that I had 7 with someone at NIOSH, I was told that the 8 request was as a result of a workplace 9 inquiry. The location was not specified. 10 Q. What was your next contact 11 regarding the popped corn plant and 12 NIOSH's work there? 13 MR. WOODSIDE: For the record, 14 when we talk about the popped corn 15 plant, we are referring to the Jasper 16 facility? 17 MR. McCLAIN: Yes. 18 Q. There's no other plant that 19 you're aware of that you've been dealing 20 with -- 21 A. No. 22 Q. -- with NIOSH, is there? 23 A. No, there's not. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. Could you repeat that question, 16 1 D.L. Carroll 2 please. 3 Q. The question is: Following your 4 understanding that they were making a 5 workplace inquiry, what was your next 6 contact with NIOSH? 7 A. I'm not sure. I don't recall. 8 It may have been this conversation. I 9 just -- I just don't recall. 10 Q. How did you come to know that 11 NIOSH had issued a report? 12 A. IFF. I believe IFF was 13 contacted. I don't know for sure. 14 Q. How did you become aware? 15 A. I became aware through Ken 16 Schrankel. 17 Q. That a report had been issued by 18 NIOSH? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. I thought you told me that you 21 told Schrankel about it? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Schrankel told you about it? 24 A. I just don't recall what the -- 25 what the circumstances were about 17 1 D.L. Carroll 2 notification. 3 Q. But somehow or other, you became 4 aware that NIOSH had issued a report; is 5 that right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And did you request it? 8 A. We requested -- in the phone 9 conversation, both Ken and I requested or 10 one of us requested that the copy of the 11 report be sent to us, yes. 12 Q. So this was some kind of a 13 conference call with you and Mr. Schrankel 14 and someone at NIOSH? 15 A. Yes, that's right. 16 Q. Do you remember who you spoke 17 to? 18 A. Greg Coleman. 19 Q. Did Mr. Coleman ask you any 20 questions about your butter flavor? 21 A. I don't recall that he did. 22 Q. Was this your first contact, 23 being the questions surrounding NIOSH's 24 inquiry and the subsequent report, your 25 first contact with the Jasper Popped Corn 18 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Plant? 3 A. I've had no contact with the 4 Jasper Popped Corn Plant. 5 Q. Tell me in general what you know 6 about BBA's contact with the Jasper Popped 7 Corn Plant over the years. 8 A. I don't -- I don't know anything 9 about that, those commercial contacts and 10 whatnot. I was not involved with that so. 11 Q. Do you know how BBA began 12 selling butter flavor to the Jasper Popped 13 Corn Plant? 14 A. No, I don't. 15 Q. Do you know whether or not BBA 16 formulated the butter flavor particularly 17 for Jasper Popped Corn as opposed to 18 selling them a preformulated butter 19 flavor? 20 A. No, I don't. I don't know 21 whether that was. 22 Q. So do you know anything about 23 any context between BBA and Jasper Popped 24 Corn prior to the NIOSH Report? 25 A. No, I'm not aware of any. 19 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Does that also refer to IFF, 3 that prior to the NIOSH report, you were 4 unaware of the Jasper Popped Corn Plant? 5 A. Yes. I was unaware, right. 6 Q. Can you tell me of the BBA 7 plants, which of them supplied the Jasper 8 Popped Corn Plant; was it Chicago or Black 9 Creek or both? 10 A. To the best of my knowledge, it 11 was just Chicago. 12 Q. Is the butter flavoring 13 manufactured at Chicago different than the 14 butter flavor manufactured at Black Creek? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. In what way? 17 A. The butter flavors that were 18 manufactured at Black Creek were butter 19 flavors that were used as components of 20 other flavors. 21 Q. Describe that for me. What do 22 you mean "as components of other flavors"? 23 A. The Black Creek facility was 24 co-located with a dairy, and the -- my 25 understanding of what happened there was 20 1 D.L. Carroll 2 that various products of the dairy were 3 processed to make raw materials that are 4 used in other flavors. Some of those 5 products being processed were butter 6 flavors. 7 Q. I see. Whereas, at Chicago, 8 they actually manufacture a butter flavor 9 to be utilized as a stand-alone product? 10 A. As -- yes, as a -- yes, as a 11 flavor to go into a commercial product, 12 yes. 13 Q. All right. Let's step back for 14 a moment from the particular case of 15 Jasper because I need to understand when 16 it was you understand that IFF -- 17 MR. McCLAIN: Strike that. 18 Q. Are all of these plants, 19 Norwood, Chicago, Carlton, Texas, 20 Jacksonville and Black Creek, were they 21 all BBA plants? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Are they currently now IFF 24 plants? 25 A. I believe the Norwood and 21 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Chicago Plants are closed and the Black 3 Creek Plant is closed. The Jacksonville 4 and Carlton Plants are still operating, to 5 the best of my knowledge. 6 Q. When did IFF become your 7 employer? 8 A. IFF became my employer in early 9 1991. 10 MR. PATTON: 2001? 11 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, 2001. 12 My mistake. 13 A. 2001. 14 Q. How did they become your 15 employer? 16 A. IFF and Bush Boake Allen merged. 17 It was through merger. 18 Q. As you understand it, is IFF 19 then the successor of BBA or does BBA 20 still have some existence, as far as you 21 know? 22 A. I don't know. I don't know what 23 the legal status of the various companies 24 is. 25 Q. Do you know whether BBA has any 22 1 D.L. Carroll 2 current existence? 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. These plants at Chicago and 5 Norwood and Black Creek, are they in 6 operation by BBA or some other company 7 currently? 8 A. I don't know. I don't know what 9 the... 10 Q. You don't know whether they are 11 open or not? 12 A. Well, no. The Jacksonville and 13 Carlton Plants, yes, I know they are open. 14 Q. But Norwood, Chicago, Black 15 Creek, are they open? 16 A. I don't know, no. 17 Q. They are not being operated by 18 IFF currently? 19 A. As far as I know, they are not. 20 I -- I don't know that they are being 21 operated by IFF, no. 22 Q. Where is butter flavoring being 23 manufactured now? 24 A. I don't know with certainty 25 where it's being manufactured. 23 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Is it being manufactured? 3 A. Again, I don't know. I'm not 4 involved in that. 5 Q. Who would know whether butter 6 flavoring is being manufactured currently? 7 A. Well, someone on the commercial 8 side of IFF sales would know. I don't 9 know who that individual is. 10 Q. Tell me why were you interested 11 in this NIOSH Report? 12 A. As I recall, we were contacted 13 by NIOSH saying that a report was to be 14 issued. I believe that's what happened. 15 To the best of my knowledge, that's what 16 it was. 17 Q. You told me that you read the 18 report; is that correct? 19 A. Yes, I have read the report. 20 Q. What do you recall about it when 21 you read it? 22 A. Well, I recall that it contained 23 the results of a number of -- a number of 24 air samplings, for example; that it 25 referred to conditions existing at the 24 1 D.L. Carroll 2 facility. It referred to various 3 remediation activities that NIOSH 4 recommended that the plant take and so 5 forth. 6 Q. Was -- what did you understand 7 NIOSH's conclusion to be about the health 8 of the employees? 9 A. I don't recall that the -- that 10 the report drew firm conclusions about the 11 health of the employees. 12 Q. What was your impression about 13 the report's comments on the health of 14 employees? 15 A. I recall that the report had a 16 good deal of information about lung 17 function and that one of the observations 18 in the report was that there was quite 19 decreased lung function in a number of 20 workers. 21 Q. So something in the plant was 22 causing a health problem with their lungs, 23 right? That was the nature of the 24 inquiry? 25 A. There was some cause of decrease 25 1 D.L. Carroll 2 in lung function for employees at the 3 plant, yes. 4 Q. Tell the -- what is your 5 understanding of what NIOSH does? 6 A. I'm not quite sure. NIOSH -- 7 NIOSH is an investigative, as I understand 8 it, investigative arm of -- of the 9 government and one of the things that they 10 do is, on request, do industrial health 11 sorts of evaluations of manufacturing 12 facilities. 13 Q. You're aware, are you not, that 14 one of the responsibilities is to 15 investigate alleged health hazards in the 16 workplace and make recommendations to OSHA 17 about what standards should be set? 18 A. Yes, I believe that's one of 19 their functions. Yes. 20 Q. And they have the capacity to do 21 animal studies within their laboratories 22 in West Virginia? 23 A. Yes, they can. They can do 24 that. 25 Q. When I say "animal studies," 26 1 D.L. Carroll 2 they test materials on animals to see 3 whether or not there are any potential 4 health threats to humans; is that your 5 understanding? 6 A. It's my understanding that they 7 do test materials, yes, in their 8 laboratories. 9 Q. One of the components of the 10 report that you read was some animal 11 studies that were done by NIOSH utilizing 12 butter flavor manufactured by IFF; isn't 13 that true? 14 A. No. The report that I read 15 didn't have any report on animal studies. 16 Q. Did you subsequently see a 17 report regarding animal studies and butter 18 flavor utilized by IFF? 19 A. I saw a report on animal studies 20 using a butter flavor, which was not 21 identified as to supplier or source. 22 Q. All right. Do you now have an 23 understanding that that was IFF butter 24 flavor? 25 A. I don't know that it was IFF 27 1 D.L. Carroll 2 butter flavor. I do know that the report 3 simply refers to a butter flavor from a 4 popped corn plant. 5 Q. All right. That was from 6 NIOSH -- 7 A. Yes, it was from NIOSH. 8 Q. -- the report? 9 A. The report was from NIOSH, yes. 10 Q. Is this a subsequent meeting 11 that NIOSH made to the manufacturers of 12 fragrances that you talked about? 13 A. No. This is a publication that 14 appeared last month in a scientific 15 journal. 16 Q. Was that in the New England 17 Journal of Medicine? 18 A. No, it was not. 19 Q. What was it in? 20 A. I'm not sure what publication it 21 was in. I just have a copy of it. 22 Q. How did you come in contact with 23 the document that you got last month? 24 A. It was given to me by Ken 25 Schrankel. 28 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. And what did you derive when you 3 read that article? 4 A. I gave it a preliminary read. 5 So I did not go into any great -- didn't 6 read it in any great detail. 7 What I concluded from it was 8 that the butter flavor that was studied in 9 this particular case did, in fact, cause 10 some damage -- damage to the -- to the 11 lungs and -- of the rats. 12 Q. Did the butter flavor, did it 13 identify the component of the butter 14 flavor that was tested on the rats? 15 A. It identified many components of 16 the butter flavor. 17 Q. And can you name the components? 18 A. I can name several of them. 19 Diacetyl was one of them; acetoin was 20 another one, A C E T O I N; a number of 21 ketone materials were identified. The 22 article contains a gas chromatographic 23 trace that identify those components. 24 Q. Were those components that they 25 identified in the article consistent with 29 1 D.L. Carroll 2 the formulation of IFF butter flavor? 3 A. Certainly several of those 4 components are present in an IFF butter 5 flavor, yes. 6 Q. So was it your conclusion that 7 this butter flavor that was tested under 8 the conditions it was administered would 9 cause lung disease in the rats? 10 A. Yes. Based on my preliminary 11 read, that's what it appears. 12 Q. Based upon your training, is it 13 your belief that this butter flavor under 14 conditions similar to those that were 15 utilized in the administration of this 16 material to the rats could be harmful to 17 human lungs? 18 A. I wouldn't necessarily draw that 19 conclusion based on a preliminary read of 20 this animal study, no. 21 Q. Is there any doubt that the 22 reaction that was obtained in the rats was 23 similar to the reaction that was obtained 24 in the humans in the Jasper Popped Corn 25 Plant? 30 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. I -- I can't comment on -- those 3 are physiological conditions and I can't. 4 Q. Are you aware that NIOSH has 5 drawn that conclusion? 6 A. No, I'm not aware that that 7 direct conclusion has been drawn. 8 Q. Are you aware that it's NIOSH's 9 belief that the butter flavor, in fact, 10 caused the lung disease in the workers in 11 the Jasper Popped Corn Plant? 12 A. I am aware that that is one 13 possibility that NIOSH has expressed. 14 Q. Can you tell me about this 15 meeting that you attended where a 16 presentation was made to the manufacturers 17 of fragrances and flavors? 18 A. Yes. NIOSH -- NIOSH put on a 19 presentation of their findings to a 20 breakfast meeting of the Flavor and 21 Extract Manufacturers Association. I 22 believe it was about a year ago in New 23 Jersey. 24 And speaking at that meeting 25 were two investigators: Greg Coleman, who 31 1 D.L. Carroll 2 spoke on industrial hygiene related 3 matters; and Kay Kreiss was a physician. 4 Q. I know you can't remember word 5 for word what was said, but can you tell 6 me in general what you do remember about 7 the substance of what was said at that 8 meeting or the substance of the 9 presentation by Mr. Coleman and 10 Dr. Kreiss? 11 A. As I recall, they described the 12 process by which they became involved in 13 the studies, and they showed a number of 14 slides of workplace conditions. 15 They summarized some of the 16 industrial hygiene recommendations that 17 they had made to the -- to the owners of 18 the facility to do things like improve 19 ventilation and so forth. 20 They provided some preliminary 21 results of studies on rats, inhalation 22 studies, butter flavor on rats that, as I 23 recall, they said were too preliminary or 24 represented preliminary range finding 25 kinds of -- range finding kinds of 32 1 D.L. Carroll 2 studies. 3 I do recall one of the speakers, 4 and I don't remember which one it was, 5 saying that they were having a hard time 6 getting very high level -- very high vapor 7 concentration levels of materials in the 8 rat studies so. 9 Q. Anything else that you can 10 recall? 11 A. No. 12 Well, the one thing that I do 13 recall is that they did not draw any final 14 conclusions at that meeting as to cause of 15 the medical problems that the employees 16 were suffering. 17 Q. What was your impression when 18 you came out of the meeting in terms of 19 impact of this report on IFF or your 20 butter flavor business? 21 A. I don't recall having any 22 thoughts on that one way or the other 23 coming out of the meeting. 24 Q. I mean, you didn't come out of 25 the meeting and say, this can't be our 33 1 D.L. Carroll 2 butter flavor? 3 A. I don't recall what I thought 4 coming out of the meeting, to tell you the 5 truth. 6 Q. Did you come out of the meeting 7 saying this is very serious, we need to 8 make a further investigation to figure out 9 whether our butter flavor can really do 10 this? 11 A. I did not come out saying that, 12 no. 13 Q. Did you come out saying 14 anything? Did you have any impression 15 coming out that any action on IFF's part 16 was warranted based upon the NIOSH Report 17 of injury to these workers? 18 A. No, I did not come out with that 19 as a -- no. I didn't come out of this 20 meeting saying we have to go and do the 21 following. No, I did not do that. 22 Q. You understood, based upon the 23 meetings and your readings of the previous 24 reports, that there were very serious 25 injuries being reported from this plant -- 34 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. -- am I right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Including some of these people 6 needing lung transplants; isn't that true? 7 A. I'm aware of that report, yes. 8 Q. And despite the fact that the 9 report raised an issue regarding these 10 serious health effects and a possible 11 connection with your product, you had no 12 impression that there was any 13 responsibility on behalf of IFF to do 14 anything to investigate this matter? 15 A. No. On the basis of the 16 information that we had and the fact that 17 the -- NIOSH was not drawing any 18 conclusions about cause and effect, we -- 19 no, we did not or I did not -- I did not 20 feel that anything further on our part was 21 necessary. The matter was under 22 investigation by NIOSH, and we would wait 23 for their final findings. 24 Q. So even though you became aware 25 of this a year and a half ago, as far as 35 1 D.L. Carroll 2 you know, IFF has taken no steps to 3 determine whether the butter flavor it 4 sells can cause these serious health 5 effects; is that true? 6 A. I'm aware that IFF is working 7 through the Flavor and Extract 8 Manufacturers Association in conjunction 9 with NIOSH to further investigate this. 10 I don't know the details of 11 that, but I'm aware that that activity is 12 ongoing. 13 Q. But in regard to any studies 14 being performed by IFF, you're not aware 15 of any occurring; is that right? 16 A. I'm not aware of IFF conducting 17 any studies now, that is correct. 18 Q. Have any new warnings been 19 placed on your products? 20 A. Not to my knowledge, no. 21 Q. Have any changes been made to 22 your Material Safety Data Sheets? 23 A. The -- I believe the format of 24 the Safety Data Sheet has changed, and 25 that represents a change from the format 36 1 D.L. Carroll 2 that Bush Boake Allen issued to the one 3 IFF issued. I'm not aware of there being 4 any change in the content of the 5 information there, other than the company 6 contact information. 7 Q. So there's been no notification 8 to the general public about this NIOSH 9 study or potential problems that might be 10 associated with breathing butter flavor 11 based upon the NIOSH study; is that 12 correct? 13 A. As far as I know, yes, that's 14 correct. 15 Q. Let's talk about the chemical 16 diacetyl for a minute. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. As a chemist, can you describe 19 for us in laymen terms -- I'm telling you 20 to do two things. I said first as a 21 chemist and now in laymen's terms, but 22 from a chemist's standpoint so laymen can 23 understand, can you describe what diacetyl 24 is and what role it plays in butter 25 flavorings? 37 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. Diacetyl is a -- is a low 3 molecular weight diketone that occurs 4 naturally in butter, cheese and a variety 5 of other foods. It's also a product of 6 normal human metabolism. Because it is a 7 constituent of butter, it is used in 8 butter flavors or in flavors that are 9 supposed to smell and taste like butter. 10 Q. And does it smell and taste like 11 butter? 12 A. I'm told that it does. I 13 haven't smelled -- I haven't smelled it 14 myself or I haven't taken a bottle of it 15 and smelled it, let's put it that way. 16 Q. Is diacetyl, as you pronounce 17 it, is that the correct -- is that the -- 18 A. I think there are several 19 differenct ways to pronounce it. 20 Q. I heard it pronounced several 21 ways, but I'll pronounce it the way the 22 chemist tells me to pronounce it. Is it 23 diacetyl; is that how you're pronouncing 24 it? 25 A. Yes. 38 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. That's how you pronounce it? 3 A. That's how I pronounce it 4 anyway. 5 Q. Can you tell me this. Is 6 diacetyl the substance in butter flavoring 7 which gives it its butter smell and 8 flavor, as far as you know? 9 A. I believe it's one -- it's one 10 of the materials. I'm not a -- I'm not a 11 flavorist. I don't create flavors, and I 12 think that question is best answered by 13 someone who does that, but I do know that 14 it's present in butter flavors. 15 MR. McCLAIN: Let's mark this as 16 an exhibit. 17 MR. PATTON: This can be off the 18 record. 19 MR. CALVERT: Do you want to go 20 off the record? 21 MR. PATTON: You can leave it on 22 the video. We will cut it out later. 23 [Discussion held off the 24 record.] 25 MR. McCLAIN: Mark this IFF 895, 39 1 D.L. Carroll 2 please. 3 [The documents were hereby 4 marked collectively as Plaintiff IFF's 5 Exhibit 895 for identification, as of 6 this date.] 7 MR. McCLAIN: Mike, that's for 8 your use there. I'm going to give 9 this one to the witness. 10 MR. PATTON: Oh, okay. 11 Q. (Handing.) Mr. Carroll, I've 12 handed you a document which was produced 13 to us by IFF, your employer, that we've 14 marked IFF 895. 15 The word diacetyl is at the top. 16 Are you familiar with this type of 17 document? 18 A. Yes, I am. 19 Q. What is it? 20 A. This looks like a printout from 21 something called the RIFM-FEMA, 22 R I F M-F E M A, database. It's a 23 monograph on the material diacetyl. 24 Q. What is RIFM-FEMA? 25 A. RIFM is the Research Institute 40 1 D.L. Carroll 2 for Fragrance Materials. It's a 3 not-for-profit independent research 4 organization that studies materials that 5 are used in both the flavor and fragrance 6 industry, despite the name. 7 FEMA is the Flavor and Extract 8 Manufacturers Association, which is the 9 professional association of the flavor 10 industry. 11 Q. When you say the "flavor 12 industry," how many manufacturers are you 13 referring to? 14 A. I don't know how many are FEMA 15 members and I -- I don't know how many 16 manufacturers there are out there. I 17 imagine there are quite a few. 18 Q. Is there an actual physical 19 location where the Flavor and Extract 20 Manufacturers Association is located? 21 A. Yes, there is. 22 Q. Where is that? 23 A. It's in Washington, D.C. 24 Q. Washington, D.C. 25 Where does someone like you go 41 1 D.L. Carroll 2 to get information about flavors from this 3 organization? 4 A. A website maintained. RIFM 5 maintains a website, and this information 6 is available on the website. 7 Q. Are there physical employees at 8 RIFM? 9 A. Yes, there are. 10 Q. Do they have experience with 11 flavors and their hazards, if any? 12 A. Yes, I believe they do. 13 Q. What is it that they do? 14 A. Well, FEMA does -- FEMA does a 15 lot of things. They maintain the database 16 basically by mining the literature for 17 information. They also are involved in 18 conducting studies on materials that are 19 of interest to the industry. They work 20 closely with government organizations and 21 so forth. 22 Q. Look over, would you, at page 23 898 of this document under Hazard 24 Statements. 25 A. (Complying.) Yes. 42 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. What are these Hazard Statements 3 that this document is referring to? 4 A. Those that are identified in the 5 second column with an R or an S, as in the 6 first one R41, are hazard classifications 7 assigned in Europe under the Dangerous 8 Substances Directive. 9 Those that are -- that don't 10 have an R or an S in that second column 11 are the hazard classifications that are 12 recommended under the -- under OSHA 13 HAZCOM, H A Z C O M. 14 Q. If you look at the Hazard 15 Statements, the one April, '89 referring 16 to diacetyl vapor is irritating the throat 17 and lungs -- 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. -- what is that referring to; do 20 you know? 21 A. No, I don't. I don't know what 22 specific study it's referring to. 23 Q. Does this indicate that as of 24 April of '89, that it was recognized that 25 diacetyl vapor was irritating to the 43 1 D.L. Carroll 2 throat and lungs? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. By January 1 of '01, you 5 indicated that this R designation means 6 that it was a -- classified as a hazardous 7 substance under the European Directive -- 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 Q. -- and it was harmful by 10 inhalation. 11 Is that an upgrade over vapor is 12 irritating the throat and lungs? 13 A. I don't know. The R phrases -- 14 the text of that is referred to as an R 15 phrase. R phrases are -- R phrases are 16 defined in the European regulations. In 17 other words, if a material meets a certain 18 criterion, then that's the language that 19 must be used. Harmful by inhalation is 20 one of those assigned -- assigned hazards, 21 and I don't believe that it can be 22 directly compared to the one at the 23 bottom: Vapor is irritating to throat and 24 lungs. 25 They come about for different -- 44 1 D.L. Carroll 2 in different mechanisms of classification. 3 Q. I didn't understand that. What 4 is -- once it has an R classification, 5 what is a manufacturer like you supposed 6 to do about it? 7 A. In Europe, it means that the 8 material is classified by whatever -- by 9 whatever R phrase is appropriate. And 10 then based on the amount of material 11 present in a mixture, the mixture itself 12 will end up being classified into one of 13 these R categories or will be declared 14 either hazardous or nonhazardous. 15 Q. So it's your understanding that 16 based upon the European regulation, 17 materials containing diacetyl are 18 hazardous materials? 19 A. No, that's not correct. 20 Materials containing diacetyl above a 21 certain level may be considered hazardous, 22 but one would have to go through the 23 calculation that's required under the 24 Dangerous Preparations Directive to draw 25 that conclusion. 45 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Do you know whether or not the 3 butter flavor manufactured by IFF 4 currently and BBA previously would qualify 5 as a hazardous material under the European 6 Directive Act -- Hazard Directive, I think 7 you said? 8 A. I know it would classify as 9 hazardous because of its flammability. I 10 do not know if it would classify as 11 hazardous because of the constituents that 12 are in it. 13 Q. Look over at page 902 in this 14 document. 15 A. (Complying.) 16 Q. And you can see the next several 17 pages involve animal studies of diacetyl 18 utilized in experiments in various 19 preparations; do you see that? 20 A. Yes, I see that. 21 Q. Are you familiar with this 22 format? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Have you reviewed this data 25 before today regarding diacetyl? 46 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. I have looked at this, yes. 3 Q. Have you seen that in some of 4 the tests that were done on animals when 5 inhalation was the route of 6 administration, that is, when they 7 breathed it, there were serious lung 8 injuries to the rats? 9 A. Uh-huh, yes, I see that. 10 Q. And do you see that these 11 studies were done as early as 1993? 12 A. Yes, I do. 13 Q. Was BBA aware of these studies 14 at about the time that they were being 15 reported? 16 A. I'm not -- I don't know if we 17 were aware of them or not. I don't know 18 for -- I don't know that we were aware of 19 a BASF study conducted in 1993. I don't 20 know when BASF made this available to 21 RIFM. 22 Q. Are they a member of RIFM? Is 23 BASF -- 24 A. Yes, they are. Let me change 25 that. I don't know if they are a member 47 1 D.L. Carroll 2 or not. I believe they are. 3 Q. But you believe they are? 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. And that there are a variety of 6 studies that are reported through this, 7 some going back as early as 1969; do you 8 see that in these reports? 9 A. (Perusing.) 10 MR. WOODSIDE: Counsel, could 11 you give us a page so that we can find 12 it? 13 MR. McCLAIN: If you look over 14 at 906, there are several that are in 15 '69. 16 Q. 906 is one by Colley. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. There's a '73 study by Stoner. 19 Do you know -- 20 MR. WOODSIDE: Excuse me, 21 Mr. McClain, you weren't meaning to 22 indicate that those are inhalation 23 studies or lung studies, were you? 24 MR. McCLAIN: I'm going to ask a 25 question in a minute. 48 1 D.L. Carroll 2 MR. WOODSIDE: Okay. 3 Q. And these studies that I'm 4 referring to involve various methods of 5 exposure to animals and reports, the 6 results of those? 7 A. Yes. I see that. 8 Q. Do you know whether IFF followed 9 or did studies of its own during any of 10 this time period regarding diacetyl? 11 A. As far as I know, they didn't. 12 IFF did not conduct any studies on 13 diacetyl. 14 Q. Do you -- did you, when you were 15 at BBA in Regulatory Compliance, take it 16 upon yourself to try to stay abreast of 17 the scientific literature about the 18 products you sold? 19 A. Yes, I did. 20 Q. So in general, you would have 21 been aware of the published data regarding 22 diacetyl? 23 A. I was aware that there was a 24 compilation of data on diacetyl and many 25 other commonly used materials available at 49 1 D.L. Carroll 2 RIFM, yes. 3 Q. Did you, during this time 4 period, have any role to play in regard to 5 what safety precautions should be taken 6 for your own employees when they were 7 working around diacetyl in your own 8 plants? 9 A. Let's see, no, certainly not 10 directly. Occupational exposure in the 11 workplace was material -- was a subject 12 that was handled by the individual plant; 13 in this case, the Chicago facility. 14 Q. Who at the Chicago facility 15 would have been in charge of taking 16 precautions for their workers? 17 A. The person responsible at the 18 facility was a general manager of the 19 facility, Dennis Sall, S A L L. 20 Q. Is Mr. Sall still an employee of 21 IFF? 22 A. I don't know. He was through 23 the end of last year. 24 Q. He was through the end of last 25 year? 50 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. Where was he located? 4 A. Chicago. 5 Q. So the Chicago Plant was closed 6 just last year? 7 A. It's my understanding, yes. 8 Q. Do you know whether or not there 9 was any search of the records at the 10 Chicago Plant or what's become of the 11 records from the Chicago Plant since its 12 been closed? 13 MR. PATTON: Let me make it 14 easy. We did search them, and we did 15 produce them. 16 MR. McCLAIN: Okay. 17 MR. PATTON: And we did maintain 18 them. 19 MR. McCLAIN: Okay. So you've 20 got them? 21 MR. PATTON: I believe so. I 22 believe you have them, but I also 23 believe we took steps to deal with it. 24 MR. McCLAIN: Okay. 25 Q. Now, Mr. Sall -- is it Sall, is 51 1 D.L. Carroll 2 that how you say his name? 3 A. Sall. 4 Q. Sall, S A L L, is that the way 5 he spelled it? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. But he pronounced it Sall? 8 A. Sall. 9 Q. You're not aware whether or not 10 he retired or whether he's still an active 11 employee? 12 A. I don't know whether he's still 13 an active employee or not. He may have 14 retired. 15 Q. What communication did you have 16 with him over the years? 17 A. Quite frequent communication 18 with Dennis. I visited the plant out 19 there a number of times. 20 Q. Did they have -- did BBA have 21 its own industrial hygiene personnel? 22 A. Yes, we did. 23 Q. Who was your industrial 24 hygienist that was in charge of the 25 Chicago facility? 52 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. There were several people there 3 who were responsible for it at various 4 times. Jack Gillen was one, G I L L E N, 5 Jack Gillen; Tim Samson was another one, 6 S A M S O N, Samson. 7 Q. Okay. Were these persons 8 physically located in Chicago? 9 A. Yes, they were. 10 Q. So they were full-time 11 industrial hygienists at the plant? 12 A. They were full-time employees 13 responsible for administering the safety 14 program. 15 Q. Were they industrial hygienists 16 by training? 17 A. I believe they both had training 18 as industrial hygienists. They were not, 19 to the best of my knowledge, certified 20 CIH. 21 Q. CIH meaning certified industrial 22 hygienists? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. You are aware, are you not, that 25 it was the directive of the industrial 53 1 D.L. Carroll 2 hygiene personnel of the Chicago 3 facilities that employees working with 4 diacetyl wear respirators; isn't that 5 true? 6 A. I don't recall that there was a 7 directive to that effect. 8 Q. Are you aware that they did it? 9 A. Yes. I was told that on at 10 least one occasion somebody did, yes. 11 Q. On at least one occasion, you 12 were told that -- 13 A. No. I was told that on at least 14 one occasion, someone did wear a 15 respirator. 16 Q. One time? 17 A. I -- I was only told of one 18 time. I don't know if there were more. 19 Q. So you're not aware that there 20 was -- 21 A. I'm not aware it was general 22 practice for anyone to wear a respirator. 23 Q. Why do -- why do you wear 24 respirators around materials? 25 A. Well, if the -- if the workplace 54 1 D.L. Carroll 2 situation is such that you can't engineer 3 out an exposure that would be harmful and 4 the only alternative left to working with 5 it is to wear a respirator, then people 6 are trained to wear respirators. 7 Q. Let's just backup for a moment. 8 Industrial hygiene is the study 9 of how to make workplaces safe for people 10 so that they do not become injured when 11 working; is that correct -- 12 A. Yes, I think that's a correct 13 way to put it. 14 Q. -- in general? 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. It's true, isn't it, that 17 industrial hygienists have a hierarchy of 18 controls that they utilize in order to 19 make workplaces safe for people? 20 A. Yes, I would say that's right. 21 Q. The first thing that an 22 industrial hygienist attempts to do when 23 identifying -- 24 MR. McCLAIN: Strike that. 25 Q. The first thing that an 55 1 D.L. Carroll 2 industrial hygienist does when analyzing a 3 workplace is identifying just what the 4 hazardous materials are; isn't that right? 5 A. Yes, I believe so. 6 Q. And after identifying what the 7 hazardous materials are, they measure the 8 exposure to people from those hazardous 9 materials; isn't that true? 10 A. I believe that's one of the 11 things that might be done. Whether that's 12 a sequential process or not, I don't know. 13 Q. And if they can eliminate 14 exposure to that hazardous material, they 15 do that in various ways; isn't that true? 16 A. Yes, I believe so. 17 Q. The first step is they see 18 whether or not it can be eliminated 19 entirely, that is, substitute some other 20 material that isn't hazardous? 21 A. That's one possibility, yes. 22 Q. And secondly, if they can't 23 eliminate it, then they attempt to 24 engineer around the product, utilizing 25 ventilation or isolation or some other 56 1 D.L. Carroll 2 engineering control? 3 A. That -- again, that's a -- 4 that's a process that I understand is 5 done, yes. 6 Q. And finally, if there's no way 7 to eliminate the problem or engineer it 8 away from the employees, they will put the 9 employee into respiratory protection to 10 prevent them from being exposed to it; 11 isn't that right? 12 A. Yes, I believe that's correct. 13 Q. That's the least effective 14 method by which we protect employees in 15 the workplace from an industrial hygiene 16 standpoint; isn't that true? 17 A. I don't know whether that's true 18 as a general statement or not. 19 Q. All right. You mentioned 20 engineering -- 21 A. Right. 22 Q. -- controls being utilized 23 before you would put somebody in 24 respiratory protection. You understand in 25 general that it's preferable to use some 57 1 D.L. Carroll 2 type of engineering control as opposed to 3 respiratory protection? 4 A. Yes. Yeah, that's my 5 understanding. Yes. 6 Q. And the reason for that is 7 because employees generally don't like to 8 use respiratory protection because they 9 are uncomfortable, and frequently 10 respiratory controls such as those are not 11 utilized correctly by employees without 12 great policing by the company utilizing 13 them; isn't that right? 14 A. No. Well, I don't know that 15 that's correct or not. 16 Engineering controls, I believe, 17 are generally preferable because they 18 cover -- they tend to cover a variety of 19 different exposures. 20 Q. So, in general, we agree that 21 respiratory protection is thought to be 22 inferior to engineering controls in terms 23 of overall protection of employees? 24 A. I don't have any basis for 25 saying that, Counselor. I... 58 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. It's not your area of expertise? 3 A. Exactly. That's not my area of 4 expertise. Thank you. 5 Q. All right. You are aware, are 6 you not, that diacetyl was identified as a 7 hazardous material within BBA plants? 8 A. Yes, I am. 9 Q. Why was it identified as such? 10 A. Diacetyl is hazardous for 11 several reasons. First of all, it has a 12 very low flashpoint. It's a flammable 13 liquid and, therefore, is hazardous by 14 definition. 15 Secondly, known hazards of the 16 material are that it's irritating to the 17 skin and eyes and may be irritating to the 18 respiratory tract as well. So it meets 19 those OSHA definitions of a hazardous 20 substance. 21 Q. Let me hand you a document from 22 1991. 23 MR. McCLAIN: This will be 24 marked IFF 242, using Mr. Patton's 25 numbering system, which is going to 59 1 D.L. Carroll 2 get us in trouble, I predict. 242. 3 [The documents were hereby 4 marked collectively as Plaintiff IFF's 5 Exhibit 242 for identification, as of 6 this date.] 7 MR. McCLAIN: Let's take a 8 break. 9 MR. CALVERT: We are going off 10 the record. The time is 10:25. 11 [A short recess was taken.] 12 MR. CALVERT: We are now back on 13 the record. The time is 10:41. 14 Q. (Handing.) Mr. Carroll, I've 15 marked an Exhibit IFF 242 that is in front 16 of you. 17 A. (Perusing.) 18 Q. Do you see this document? 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. You're cc'd on it. Do you see 21 that? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. It's from Jack Gillen to Mr. Jim 24 Raugh? 25 A. Right. 60 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Is that how you say his name? 3 A. That's right, yes. 4 Q. Who were those two men? 5 A. Jack was -- Jack was the plant 6 safety specialist. I believe that may 7 have been his title. 8 Jim Raugh was his direct 9 supervisor. 10 Q. And these were individuals at 11 the Chicago Plant? 12 A. Yes, that's correct. 13 Q. It's on Bush Boake Allen 14 stationery? 15 A. Yes. Yes. 16 Q. These other people that are cc'd 17 on this memo, Mr. Sall, Dennis Sall, 18 you've previously identified -- 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. -- as the plant manager in 21 Chicago? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. Roger Rich was, who? 24 A. Roger Rich was the president of 25 Bush Boake Allen America's division. 61 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. And your position at this time 3 in 1991 was director of? 4 A. Environmental and Regulatory -- 5 Q. Affairs? 6 A. -- Affairs and Quality Assurance 7 for America's division. 8 Q. Who is Hiram Kinser? 9 A. Hiram was -- Hiram was involved 10 in direct manufacturing. I'm not sure 11 what his position was. 12 Q. Who was Terri Lane? 13 A. Terri Lane was an industrial 14 hygienist with the Union Camp Corporation. 15 Q. Who was the Union Camp 16 Corporation? 17 A. Union Camp Corporation was the 18 owner of Bush Boake Allen at that time. 19 Bush Boake Allen at that time was a 20 wholly-owned subsidiary of Union Camp, I 21 believe, was the relationship. 22 Q. What was Union Camp's business? 23 A. Union Camp's principal business 24 was the pulp and paper industry. 25 Q. And BBA was a wholly-owned 62 1 D.L. Carroll 2 subsidiary that dealt with flavors; is 3 that correct? 4 A. Flavors and fragrances, yes. 5 Q. All right. But they did have 6 their own industrial hygienist at Union 7 Camp? 8 A. Yes, they did. 9 Q. Did Union Camp give industrial 10 hygiene consulting services to BBA? 11 A. Yes, they did. 12 Q. Did their legal counsel give 13 direction to you in Regulatory Affairs at 14 BBA? 15 A. No. No, not that I recall. 16 Q. Did BBA have its own legal 17 counsel? 18 A. I don't know. I don't know 19 what -- I don't know what BBA had for 20 legal counsel then. 21 Q. This document outlines air 22 sampling within the Chicago Plant, does it 23 not? 24 A. (Perusing.) It -- it outlines a 25 proposal to sample for materials in the 63 1 D.L. Carroll 2 plant, yes. 3 Q. It discusses that -- the 4 substance of the memo seems to be that in 5 1992, eight chemicals were determined to 6 be ones where air sampling should identify 7 whether they were in the air and in what 8 quantity; is that correct? 9 A. (Perusing.) 10 Q. Just let me read it to you. It 11 says (reading) In our meeting we decided 12 on eight chemicals that we planned to 13 conduct air sampling for this coming year. 14 Here they are listed in priority. 15 Do you see that? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. The reason why one samples for 18 materials is to determine how much of them 19 are in the air; isn't that right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Because high quantities of these 22 items are thought to be hazardous; isn't 23 that true or certain quantities? It 24 doesn't necessarily have to be high. 25 A. Yes, that's correct. 64 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. All right. In fact, you list in 3 these columns some standards by which you 4 measure exposures to these materials; 5 isn't that true? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Diacetyl is the fourth listed 8 chemical which the memo tells us are the 9 priorities for sampling in 1992; isn't 10 that right? 11 A. Yes, that's the fourth material. 12 Q. That's fourth out of eight -- 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. -- in the plant. 15 But there aren't any standards 16 that are established for exposure to 17 diacetyl; isn't that right? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. But nonetheless, it was thought 20 within BBA to be the number four in 21 priority for sampling; isn't that right? 22 A. It was thought by the people who 23 attended this particular meeting that it 24 was, yes. 25 Q. All right. Do you know why it 65 1 D.L. Carroll 2 was? 3 A. No, I don't. I don't know why 4 it's on that list. 5 MR. McCLAIN: Let me show you 6 what we will mark as Exhibit 477, IFF 7 477. 8 [The document was hereby marked 9 as Plaintiff IFF's Exhibit 477 for 10 identification, as of this date.] 11 Q. (Handing.) 12 A. (Perusing.) 13 Q. Have you read the exhibit? 14 A. Yes, I have. 15 Q. This discusses -- again, it's 16 from a Mr. Sall to Mr. Gillen, who we've 17 previously identified? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. It discusses respirators for 20 compounding, following the program to air 21 sample in the plant; do you see that? 22 A. Well, I don't see any tie to the 23 air sampling but. 24 Q. It's after that, isn't it? 25 A. Yes. It's subsequent to that. 66 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. It discusses, does it not, that 3 the compounders wanted respirators? 4 A. (Perusing.) It says that they 5 would be better protected if they wore 6 them, yes. 7 Q. They wanted protection from the 8 butter flavor, right? 9 A. That's mentioned in here, yes. 10 Q. Just so that we are clear, who 11 are the compounders? 12 A. Compounders are the people who 13 actually do the mixing of the chemicals 14 and the formulation to make the finished 15 flavor. 16 Q. It says (reading) Our 17 compounders feel that they can be better 18 protected by respirators that work 19 effectively on the butter flavors and code 20 one. 21 What's code one? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. (Reading) If we provide everyone 24 with a mask properly fit and train all 25 compounders and force proper storage of 67 1 D.L. Carroll 2 the mask, I think we will have a safer 3 Compounding Department. 4 Do you see that? 5 A. Yes, I do. 6 Q. Do you recall any discussions 7 during this time period about compounders 8 requesting masks when mixing butter 9 flavor? 10 A. No, I don't. 11 Q. Do you see there's a note on the 12 bottom. Can you read that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Would you read it to us, please. 15 A. It looks like it says (reading) 16 Jack, thank you. I appreciate the way you 17 handled this difficult situation. Dennis. 18 Q. And so this is again Mr. Sall to 19 Mr. Gillen, right? That's how you would 20 interpret it? 21 A. Right, that's how I would 22 interpret it. Yes. 23 Q. Do you know what the "difficult 24 situation" he was referring to was? 25 A. No, I don't. 68 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Was there a problem in 1993 3 regarding the compounders and butter 4 flavor? 5 A. There had been splashes of 6 materials but, no, that's the only thing 7 I'm aware of. 8 Q. So you're not aware of any 9 compounders complaining about the 10 irritation of the butter flavor on their 11 lungs -- 12 A. No. 13 Q. -- and wanting to be protected 14 from it? 15 A. No, I'm not. 16 Q. You don't know what the 17 difficult situation that Dennis is 18 referring to here? 19 A. No, I don't. 20 Q. It's true, isn't it, that almost 21 immediately after this memo in February of 22 1994, that a Respiratory Protection Plan 23 was put into place in the Chicago Plant? 24 A. I don't know that. 25 MR. McCLAIN: Let's mark this as 69 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Exhibit 896. 3 [The documents were hereby 4 marked collectively as Plaintiff IFF's 5 Exhibit 896] for identification, as of 6 this date.] 7 Q. (Handing.) 8 A. (Perusing.) 9 Q. Are you ready? 10 A. Uh-huh. 11 Q. Have you seen this document 12 before? 13 A. I do not recall seeing this 14 document before, no. 15 Q. Were you unaware that there was 16 a Respiratory Protection Program at the 17 Chicago Plant? 18 A. I believe I was aware that there 19 was a program throughout the company. 20 Q. First of all, let's backup for a 21 minute. 22 Do you know what a respirator 23 is? 24 A. Yes. I -- I have -- I believe I 25 know what a respirator is, yes. 70 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. You have one? 3 A. No, I don't. 4 Q. Have you been trained to utilize 5 one? 6 A. No, I've not. 7 Q. You've seen them in use? 8 A. I've seen them in films in use, 9 yes. 10 Q. Is this (handing) a respirator 11 like the ones you've seen? 12 A. It looks like one, yes, that 13 I've seen. 14 MR. McCLAIN: Let's mark that as 15 IFF Exhibit 1, if we can. 16 [The Respirator was hereby 17 marked as Plaintiff IFF's Exhibit 1 18 for identification, as of this date.] 19 Q. Mr. Carroll, have you seen 20 respirators in use in BBA plants? 21 A. I don't recall seeing any 22 respirators in use in BBA plants, no. 23 Q. You were unaware that there was 24 a Respiratory Protection Program in your 25 plants? 71 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. I was aware that -- yes. I was 3 unaware that there was a respiratory -- 4 wait a minute. Let me -- I was not aware 5 of a Respiratory Protection Program in 6 place in the Chicago Plant. 7 Q. You're the director of 8 Regulatory Compliance? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. And you were unaware that there 11 was a respiratory program in the Chicago 12 Plant? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. How is that possible? 15 A. The -- 16 Q. I mean, you're in charge of -- 17 MR. WOODSIDE: Wait a minute. 18 You asked a question. 19 MR. McCLAIN: Let me ask a 20 different question because he's 21 searching for an answer, and I want to 22 give him a direction that I want an 23 answer to. 24 Q. You're the director of 25 Regulatory Compliance, right? 72 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. It's your job to determine 4 whether or not your company is complying 5 with regulations of our Federal 6 government, right? 7 A. Certain regulations in the 8 Federal government, yes. 9 Q. Some of those regulations regard 10 health and safety, do they not? 11 A. Yes, that's correct. 12 Q. All right. And some of those 13 regulations require you to wear 14 respirators around certain materials; 15 isn't that right? 16 A. Yes, they do. 17 Q. And you don't know whether or 18 not they had a Respiratory Protection 19 Program at the Chicago Plant? 20 A. I was not aware that there were 21 plant conditions that would require the 22 wearing of a respirator at the Chicago 23 Plant. 24 Q. Why not? Why were you unaware 25 of that? 73 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. I was unaware of any 3 measurements taken that showed that 4 materials for which there are occupational 5 exposure limits, in fact, had exceeded 6 those occupational exposure limits and, 7 therefore, would require respiratory 8 protection. 9 Q. But as the director of 10 Regulatory Compliance, shouldn't you know 11 that? 12 A. If that information were 13 available, yes, I should. 14 Q. So this comes as a surprise to 15 you because you should be aware of this 16 document? 17 A. The fact that there is a written 18 document dated February 23, 1994 is a 19 surprise to me. 20 The fact that respiratory 21 protection -- a respiratory protection as 22 a part of the normal corporate safety and 23 health program, which applied to the 24 Chicago facility, covers respiratory 25 protection is not a surprise to me. 74 1 D.L. Carroll 2 MR. McCLAIN: Could I hear that 3 answer back. 4 [The requested portion of the 5 record was read.] 6 Q. Mr. Carroll, are you telling me 7 that you were aware they were using 8 respirators in Chicago but not aware that 9 they had a program? 10 A. I was not aware that they were 11 using respirators in Chicago. 12 Q. You don't know why they took it 13 upon themselves to institute a Respiratory 14 Protection Program in Chicago; is that 15 your testimony? 16 A. Yes, that's correct. I'm not 17 aware of that. 18 Q. But, apparently, they did it for 19 some reason? 20 A. Yes, so it would seem. 21 Q. It states that (reading) The 22 purpose -- in this document under 23 Purpose -- the purpose of this Respiratory 24 Protection Program is to ensure that the 25 proper respiratory protection equipment is 75 1 D.L. Carroll 2 provided for all employees of the Chicago 3 Plant who may have the occasion to work in 4 atmospheres that might contain harmful 5 dust, fog, fumes, mists, gases, smoke, 6 sprays or vapors, that they receive 7 appropriate medical examinations, that 8 they are properly fit tested, that they 9 are properly trained in the use and care 10 of such equipment and that this equipment 11 is maintained in a ready-to-use condition. 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes, I do. Yes, I see that. 14 Q. But before today, you never knew 15 that that policy was in place? 16 A. I never knew that this specific 17 written policy was in place, that's 18 correct. 19 Q. Now, look over here at second -- 20 the second page of this document under 21 Program. 22 A. (Complying.) 23 Q. It says (reading) The safety 24 manager is designated to administer and 25 manage the Respiratory Protection Program 76 1 D.L. Carroll 2 at Bush Boake Allen Chicago Plant. 3 Do you see that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. The first thing that that person 6 was to do was to conduct a hazardous 7 assessment. 8 Do you see that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. If you look over at the next 11 page under Hazardous Assessments, it says 12 (reading) The potential respiratory 13 exposures that have been identified for 14 various areas of the Chicago Plant are 15 compounding, and one of the chemicals 16 listed under the Hazardous Assessment is 17 diacetyl. 18 Do you see that? 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. And likewise in the Emulsion 21 Room, diacetyl is listed as a hazardous 22 material -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- deserving respiratory 25 protection; do you see that? 77 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. I don't see that it says 3 "deserving respiratory protection." 4 I see that it says that it's an 5 area for potential exposure. 6 Q. Do you see that (reading) Hazard 7 assessment will be on an ongoing basis; as 8 the assessment activity continues, 9 additional respiratory exposures may be 10 identified? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. They are identifying respiratory 13 exposures; do you see that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. They are identifying that as the 16 first step of a Respiratory Protection 17 Plan -- 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. -- do you see that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Respiratory protection was 22 utilized at this plant for employees 23 working in both Compounding and in the 24 Emulsion Room, right? 25 A. I don't see that it says that 78 1 D.L. Carroll 2 they are being -- that respiratory 3 protection is being used in Compounding or 4 the Emulsion Room. 5 I see that the Hazardous 6 Assessment identifies those as two areas 7 where there are potential respiratory 8 exposures. 9 Q. So you think that they developed 10 a Respiratory Protection Plan and 11 identified those as being hazardous 12 materials and didn't use this plan 13 somehow? 14 A. I don't know how this plan was 15 used in the Chicago facility. 16 Q. Do you know why it was that they 17 identified diacetyl as an exposure -- as a 18 respiratory exposure hazard at the plant? 19 A. No, I don't know why. 20 Q. Do you see that -- look at the 21 scope on the first page under the Scope. 22 A. Uh-huh. 23 Q. It says (reading) This 24 Respiratory Protection Program shall apply 25 to all employees of the Chicago Plant who 79 1 D.L. Carroll 2 may have to wear a respirator either as a 3 requirement of the job or in the case of 4 an emergency. Contractors and visitors 5 will also comply with this procedure. No 6 exception to this procedure shall be made 7 without the consent of the department 8 manager and the program administer. 9 Single use disposable dust respirators are 10 excluded from the provision of this 11 program, except where otherwise indicated. 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes, I do. 14 Q. They are talking about 15 respirators such as the one I showed you, 16 not just dust masks; isn't that right? 17 A. Yes, that's correct. 18 Q. But you don't know to what 19 extent respirators were used in these 20 areas; is that right? 21 A. That's correct, I don't know to 22 what extent. 23 Q. They could have been full time, 24 as far as you know? 25 A. Yes. Well, certainly the times 80 1 D.L. Carroll 2 that I was out there, I never saw them 3 being used. 4 Q. All right. 5 A. So. 6 Q. Do you know -- did you ever 7 inquire about the subject of respirator 8 use in those areas? 9 A. No, I don't recall doing that. 10 Q. During the time that you were 11 there, was butter flavor in production or 12 do you recall? 13 A. I don't recall whether it was in 14 production. It may have been. 15 Q. But because you don't recall, 16 you don't know whether or not during the 17 production of butter flavor, whether 18 respirators were required to be used, 19 right? 20 A. No, I don't. 21 Q. Do you recall five 22 butter-related exposure accidents at the 23 Chicago Plant being a source of concern to 24 Mr. Sall? 25 A. I know that there were a number 81 1 D.L. Carroll 2 of spills that had occurred, splashes and 3 whatnot that had occurred, exposing 4 compounders to ingredients in flavor, yes. 5 I don't know that there were five. I know 6 that there were... 7 MR. McCLAIN: Let's mark this as 8 Exhibit 142, IFF 142. 9 [The documents were hereby 10 marked collectively as Plaintiff IFF's 11 Exhibit 142 for identification, as of 12 this date.] 13 MR. PATTON: Is this two pages 14 of the same thing? It is, isn't it? 15 MR. McCLAIN: Yeah. I think we 16 just copied two of them. It looks 17 like you produced two copies of it 18 because they have two different Bates 19 numbers on the bottom. 20 MR. ZIEGLER: It appears that 21 the last number of the Bates stamp has 22 been cut off of a copy. 23 MR. McCLAIN: This document is 24 IFF 142. 25 MR. WOODSIDE: The next one is 82 1 D.L. Carroll 2 143. That's what we will call it. 3 Q. Who is Cathy Joyce? 4 A. Cathy was the Personnel manager 5 in Chicago. 6 Q. And Lindberg, Kinser have 7 previously been identified, I think? 8 A. I don't think Lindberg was. 9 Lindberg was -- may have been the 10 Production supervisor or Plant supervisor. 11 Kinser worked for Lindberg. 12 Osorio and Harwell, I'm not sure 13 who they were. 14 Q. Now, do you know what this 15 involved; whether this was a spill or some 16 other type of exposure? 17 A. I don't know whether -- what 18 specifically it was, refers to. 19 Q. Who is Joe Tremiti? 20 A. Joe Tremiti was an employee of 21 the Union Camp Company. I believe he was 22 involved in insurance or something. I'm 23 not sure, but I seem to recall that that's 24 what he did. 25 Q. Do you know what contact was 83 1 D.L. Carroll 2 made with Mr. Tremiti or Union Camp's 3 outside OSHA counsel regarding diacetyl? 4 A. No, I don't. 5 Q. Who is Greg Adams? 6 A. Greg Adams was Bush Boake 7 Allen's industrial hygienist. 8 Q. Who was T. M. Lane? 9 A. That's Terri Lane who was 10 identified on an earlier document; Theresa 11 Lane. 12 MR. McCLAIN: Let me show you 13 what we will mark as Exhibit 837. 14 [The documents were hereby 15 marked collectively as Plaintiff IFF's 16 Exhibit 837 for identification, as of 17 this date.] 18 Q. (Handing.) 19 A. (Perusing.) 20 Q. Are you familiar with this 21 document? 22 A. No, I'm not. This is the first 23 time I've seen this. 24 Q. Do you know who Mark Uhler is? 25 A. No, I don't. 84 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. Do you see that in the 3 Compounding Room that one of the questions 4 that they were to ask were: Are 5 respirators being properly stored? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Does this indicate to you that 8 respirators were available and in use in 9 Compounding? 10 A. Indicates to me that there were 11 respirators that could be stored. I don't 12 know that they were in use. 13 Q. You think they just left -- 14 stored them there in Compounding for use 15 in some other department? 16 A. I have no idea. I'm sorry, I 17 don't. 18 Q. Was that generally the practice; 19 you would store things in Compounding for 20 use in the Packing area or Shipping area 21 or would things stored in the Compounding 22 area be used in the Compounding area? 23 A. I think they would be intended 24 to be used in the Compounding area, but I 25 don't know that they were being used. 85 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. I would, too. 3 Well, you didn't supply 4 equipment in the Compounding area that 5 would not be used necessary for 6 compounding, would you? 7 A. Well, we would have fire 8 protection equipment in there, for 9 example. 10 Q. Because it might be necessary to 11 use, right? 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. So you would have respirators in 14 there because they might be necessary to 15 use, right? 16 A. Possibly, yes. 17 Q. And we saw previously that there 18 was a respirator program to show people 19 how to use them and that one of the 20 chemicals that was being protected against 21 in the respirator program was diacetyl; 22 isn't that right? 23 A. One of the materials identified 24 for evaluation for -- what was the term -- 25 for air sampling was diacetyl, that's 86 1 D.L. Carroll 2 correct. Diacetyl was being used in the 3 Compounding Room, that's correct. 4 Q. All right. And it was also 5 being used -- 6 A. In the Butter Room, yes. 7 Q. Huh? 8 A. In the Butter Room. 9 Q. In the Butter Room? 10 A. Uh-huh. 11 Q. In the Butter Room Checklist 12 that's on the second page -- 13 MR. WOODSIDE: Time out. 14 MR. McCLAIN: Yeah? 15 MR. WOODSIDE: I'm sorry. I 16 just wanted to get to the second page. 17 MR. McCLAIN: It's the one that 18 follows one. 19 MR. WOODSIDE: Thank you. I 20 appreciate that. 21 MR. McCLAIN: This will be our 22 last question because we need to take 23 a break because we are about to run 24 out of tape. 25 Q. Do you see that one of the 87 1 D.L. Carroll 2 questions that you're supposed to answer 3 in this Butter Room Checklist is: Is the 4 Butter Room free of yellowish vapors? 5 Do you see that? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. Did you have an understanding 8 that one of the concerns that they had in 9 regard to employee safety was that vapors 10 being released from the butter flavoring 11 were hazardous? 12 A. No. That didn't come to me as 13 a -- no. 14 Q. You were unaware of that? 15 A. Yes. I was unaware of that. 16 Q. Did you know that they were 17 having problems with yellow vapors being 18 emitted in the Butter Room? 19 A. No, I was not aware of that. As 20 I say, this is the first time I've seen 21 this list. 22 MR. McCLAIN: Let's take a 23 break. 24 MR. CALVERT: This marks the end 25 of tape number 1 in the videotaped 88 1 D.L. Carroll 2 deposition of David L. Carroll. We 3 are going off the record. The time is 4 11:19. 5 [Discussion held off the 6 record.] 7 MR. CALVERT: Here marks the 8 beginning of tape number 2 in the 9 videotaped deposition of David L. 10 Carroll. We are back on the record. 11 The time is 11:36. 12 Q. Mr. Carroll, I'm somewhat 13 confused. You're not suggesting, are you, 14 that respirators were not commonly used in 15 plants at BBA? 16 A. To the best of my knowledge, 17 respirator usage was very uncommon, if not 18 at all practiced. 19 MR. McCLAIN: I show you what we 20 will mark as Exhibit 385. 21 [The documents were hereby 22 marked collectively as Plaintiff IFF's 23 Exhibit 385 for identification, as of 24 this date.] 25 Q. (Handing.) 89 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. (Perusing.) 3 Q. This is a document that you were 4 copied on, was it not, in 1995? 5 A. Yes, it is. 6 Q. It says it relates to the 7 Chicago Plant, right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And the subject is Industrial 10 Hygiene Recommendations? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. On the page marked Control 13 Measures, page that ends in a 60 -- 14 A. I'm sorry, I don't see. 15 Q. Bottom of the page it's 60 -- 16 3860. 17 A. Okay. It's cut off. Right. 18 Q. It talks about (reading) Based 19 on past, the 1995 Exposure Monitoring 20 Update are: PP to reflect need, comfort 21 protection for respirators include 22 findings and hazardous sections of the 23 program, conduct respirator fit testing 24 and training for current year? 25 A. Yes. 90 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. (Continuing) Provide Respiratory 3 Protection Program to comply with medical 4 evaluation criteria in UCC medical 5 procedure MM3 and complete necessary 6 requirements? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you see that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. It was a yearly respirator fit 11 program in place in the Chicago Plant and 12 training, wasn't there? 13 A. (No response.) 14 Q. (Reading) Conduct respirator fit 15 testing and training for current year. 16 Do you see that? 17 A. Yes. I see that the industrial 18 hygienist made that as a recommendation 19 for something to do, yes. 20 Q. In fact, there is such a 21 procedure at -- was such a procedure at 22 BBA, wasn't there, for respiratory fit 23 training to be conducted on a yearly 24 basis? 25 A. (No response.) 91 1 D.L. Carroll 2 MR. McCLAIN: Let's mark this 3 364. 4 MR. WOODSIDE: Before you 5 continue, just for the record, I think 6 the one you called 385 is probably 7 3858. The last digits are cut off. I 8 don't care how you call it, but for 9 the record it's 3858. 10 MR. McCLAIN: Okay. 11 All right. 364. 12 [The documents were hereby 13 marked collectively as Plaintiff IFF's 14 Exhibit 364 for identification, as of 15 this date.] 16 Q. (Handing.) 17 A. (Perusing.) 18 Q. Do you see the date on this; 19 it's 6/1/92 on the back? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. From Manual 3, whatever that is. 22 What's Manual 3? 23 A. I don't know. I -- 24 Q. Is there an employee manual 25 somewhere for employees in the Chicago 92 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Plant? 3 A. I think this is Union Camp 4 Medical Procedure MM3. 5 Q. Do you see that there was to be, 6 under this procedure, assessment for 7 respirator use of all employees? 8 Do you see that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. It's to be performed before 11 occupational exposure occurs; do you see 12 that? 13 MR. PATTON: (Indicating.) 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. They are to have a physical 16 examination, a pulmonary function test? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And then for current employees, 19 there was an assessment for respirator 20 reuse with an annual review? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Right. 23 And then there have to be 24 pulmonary function tests reviewed -- 25 A. Yes. 93 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. -- for that employee on a yearly 3 basis? 4 A. Yes. For those using 5 respirators and covered by the Respiratory 6 Protection Program, that's correct. 7 Q. We already saw the Respiratory 8 Protection Program that was in place in 9 Chicago, right? 10 A. We saw that there's a 11 Respiratory Protection Program in place. 12 It doesn't show that any one employees 13 were utilizing respirators. 14 Q. And so you think -- go ahead. 15 [The requested portion of the 16 record was read.] 17 A. (Continuing) It doesn't show 18 that respirators were actually in use. It 19 shows that a program was there to cover 20 their use, as required. 21 Q. Well, this is a very extensive 22 program, isn't it? 23 A. This is a very -- yes, it is a 24 very extensive program. 25 Q. It requires quite a bit of 94 1 D.L. Carroll 2 corporate resources to be put in place? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And you would not think, from a 5 lay standpoint anyway, that you would 6 utilize such an extensive procedure if no 7 procedure was necessary, would you? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. You would do that? 10 A. Yes. If there is a potential 11 for the use of respirators, then a 12 Respiratory Protection Program of the 13 scope shown here is required under OSHA. 14 It doesn't mean that there is 15 actual exposure or usage. 16 Q. Okay. What's the potential 17 then? They identified in the butter 18 flavoring operation diacetyl as being one 19 of the chemicals they were protecting 20 against by having this respirator program; 21 isn't that right? 22 A. No. They identified diacetyl as 23 a material that was one of eight that was 24 to be sampled during that particular year. 25 I don't recall what year was specified. 95 1 D.L. Carroll 2 Q. That was their sampling. In 3 regard to the respirator program under 4 Respiratory Protection Program, if you 5 look back at Exhibit 896, diacetyl is in 6 Compounding, one of -- one, two, three, 7 four -- five chemicals; isn't that true? 8 A. It's one of five for which there 9 are potential respiratory exposures, as it 10 states in the document. 11 Q. Acetic acid can be a hazardous 12 material to breathe? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And allyl iso thioc -- 15 A. Allyl iso thiocyanate. 16 Q. -- that can be very hazardous, 17 if it's breathed? 18 A. Yes, it can be. 19 Q. Furfural -- is that how you say 20 it? 21 A. Furfural mercaptan. 22 Q. Yeah. Furfural mercaptans can 23 be very hazardous when breathed? 24 A. Yes, they can be. 25 Q. And acetaldehyde can be very 96 1 D.L. Carroll 2 hazardous when breathed? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. And diacetyl is in the 5 same group of chemicals with those; isn't 6 that right? 7 A. Yes, it is, as those for which 8 there are potential exposures which were 9 to be assessed in terms of the actual 10 exposure levels. That's correct. 11 Q. They have the potential to be 12 very hazardous chemicals when breathed? 13 A. They do, that's correct. 14 Q. In the Emulsion Room, the only 15 two that are listed that are of certain 16 are acetaldehyde and diacetyl; isn't that 17 right? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. And this Respiratory Protection 20 Program that you take all these 21 precautions for is utilized to protect 22 employees for exposure to all these 23 hazardous chemicals; isn't that right? 24 A. It's used to protect employees 25 when occupational exposure levels for 97 1 D.L. Carroll 2 those materials are exceeded and the only 3 means of protecting the employee are 4 through respiratory protection. 5 If engineering controls are 6 adequate to reduce those to the 7 appropriate -- to levels below the 8 exposure limits then, no, a respiratory 9 program would not be used. 10 Q. Look at 242, Exhibit 242. 11 A. Which is? 12 Q. The first document I showed you. 13 You mention exposures and 14 persons exposed over certain limits; isn't 15 that right? 16 A. Yes, for those for which there 17 are exposure limits, yes. 18 Q. For diacetyl there aren't any 19 safe levels established, are there? 20 A. No. TWAs and STLs have not been 21 established, that's correct. 22 Q. So we don't know what the safe 23 level to diacetyl is based upon any 24 standards set by the Federal government, 25 do we? 98 1 D.L. Carroll 2 A. There are no standards for it. 3 Q. Or by the ACGH? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. All of these other substances 6 that we have in this list, including those 7 that -- some of those that we talked about 8 before, acetaldehyde, we know that 9 exposures under those levels are thought 10 to be safe, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. But we don't have such levels 13 established for diacetyl, do we? 14 A. No, we don't. 15 MR. McCLAIN: Let's show you the 16 next Exhibit IFF 345. 17 [The document was hereby marked 18 as Plaintiff IFF's Exhibit 345 for 19 identification, as of this date.] 20 Q. (Handing.) 21 A. (Perusing.) 22 Q. Mr. Carroll, specifically, I'm 23 wanting to ask you about diacetyl 24 synthetic, diacetyl Smithchem synthetic, 25 S M I T H C H E M, and natural diacetyl, 99 1 D.L. Carroll 2 third. 3 Do you see where I am? 4 A. Yes, I see where you are. 5 Q. The question I have is: From a 6 chemical standpoint, what's the difference 7 between these? 8 A. From a chemical standpoint, 9 these would probably differ in their 10 specifications. The material in all three 11 cases is diacetyl. There may be -- I 12 wouldn't know without going back and 13 referring to detailed specifications on 14 them as to what differences there exist, 15 if any. 16 Q. Are there known different health 17 effects between these three materials that 18 you're aware of? 19 A. Not that I'm aware of, no. 20 Q. What different chemical 21 composition could account for the 22 different flashpoints of the material? 23 A. Again, I would have to refer 24 back to specifications to find out why 25 there are differences shown there. I have 100 1 D.L. Carroll 2 no idea. 3 Q. Okay. 4 MR. McCLAIN: Any other 5 questions? I don't have any further 6 questions. 7 MR. PATTON: Okay. Why don't we 8 agree on all these depositions that we 9 will read them and sign them. If any 10 witness doesn't read it and sign it by 11 the time of trial, it will be assumed 12 that they have waived it. 13 Fair enough? 14 MR. McCLAIN: Fine. 15 MR. PATTON: The next deposition 16 is at, what time? Off the record. 17 MR. CALVERT: This marks the end 18 of videotape number 2 in the 19 videotaped deposition of David L. 20 Carroll. We are going off the record. 21 The time is 11:51. 22 [TIME NOTED: 11:51 a.m.] 23 24 25 101 1 2 3 A C K N O W L E D G M E N T 4 5 STATE OF MISSOURI) 6 ss: 7 COUNTY OF JASPER) 8 I, DAVID L. CARROLL, hereby 9 certify that I have read the 10 transcript of my testimony taken 11 under oath in my deposition of 12 January 14, 2003; that the 13 transcript is a true, complete and 14 correct record of what was asked, 15 answered and said during this deposition, 16 and that the answers on the record as 17 given by me are true and correct. 18 19 ____________________ DAVID L. CARROLL 20 Subscribed and sworn to 21 before me this ____ day of _____________, 2003. 22 ________________________ 23 NOTARY PUBLIC 24 25 102 1 2 3 I N D E X 4 5 6 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE 7 D.L. Carroll Mr. Patton 4 8 9 E X H I B I T S 10 PLAINTIFF'S IFF DESCRIPTION PAGE 11 895 Documents 39 12 242 Documents 59 13 477 Document 65 14 896 Documents 69 15 1 Respirator 70 16 142 Documents 81 17 837 Documents 83 18 385 Documents 88 19 364 Documents 91 20 345 Document 98 21 22 23 24 25 103 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 4 I, Ellen Katz, a Notary Public for 5 and within the State of New York, do 6 hereby certify: 7 That the witness whose testimony as 8 herein set forth, was duly sworn by me; 9 and that the within transcript is a true 10 record of the testimony given by said 11 witness. 12 I further certify that I am not 13 related to any of the parties to this 14 action by blood or marriage, and that I am 15 in no way interested in the outcome of 16 this matter. 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto 18 set my hand this 15th day of January, 19 2003. 20 21 _______________________ 22 Ellen Katz, RPR, CRR 23 24 * * * 25 104 1 2 E R R A T A S H E E T 3 DEPOSITION OF: DAVID L. CARROLL 4 RE: BENAVIDES, ET AL. v. IFF, ET AL. DATE TAKEN: JANUARY 14, 2003 5 6 PAGE LINE # CORRECTION REASON 7 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 8 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 9 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 10 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 11 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 12 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 13 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 14 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 15 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 16 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 17 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 18 _____ _____ _________________ _______ 19 20 21 _____________________ DAVID L. CARROLL 22 Subscribed and sworn to 23 before me this ____ day of _____________, 2003. 24 _________________________ 25 NOTARY PUBLIC